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Editing Shane by Vashi Nedomansky

The first time I met Shane was at Bandito Brothers last year, when he and the Director Po Chan asked me to edit “The Last 3 Minutes.” I had worked for the Banditos as a freelance editor for three years and had cut dozens of projects there, but never crossed paths with Shane. When I did get a chance to meet him, I realized that this man is a force of nature and has more enthusiasm for filmmaking and sharing his knowledge than anyone I’ve ever met. He asked me to guest blog about editing, so allow me to pull the curtain back on the workflow, mindset and process of Editing Shane…

vashi edit bay

I’m principally a feature film editor but to keep fresh and to hone my craft I take as many commercials, shorts, viral videos, and short form projects as I can handle. Each gig is a new experience and takes a different approach and that’s important to your sanity when you are locked in a edit bay (the cave) for hours at a time. I’ve cut around a dozen projects for Shane and each one has its own special challenge. The one constant on editing Shane is that you will get the most unusual and awesome footage you’ve ever seen. You will also get ten cameras worth of angles for each shot. You will never have to ask, “Did you guys get a shot of…?” Yup, it’s there and then some. I know that all the stuff I need to do my job will be there in spades.

QUICK TIP #1: Always shoot as much as possible. There is no such thing as overshooting. There’s just the dreaded, “We gotta go back and grab a shot.”

What to edit on? I’ve cut on Avid Media Composer, Apple Final Cut and Adobe Premiere on professional gigs. They are all just tools to help accomplish the job in the most efficient way possible. My advice…learn all three if you want to be a working editor. Between keyboard shortcuts, free online tutorials and the trial versions of each NLE, you can bounce back and forth between all of them. At Bandito Brothers and Hurlbut Visuals I’ve cut on all three systems depending on what was needed for each project in terms of which format captured, what codec converted to, VFX needs and sometimes which edit bay is available. As of right now my favorite and most used NLE is definitely Adobe Premiere CS5…and if you shoot on DSLRs or deal with h.264 footage, it should be yours too.

The simple fact of cutting without transcoding h.264 footage in Premiere by itself is miraculous. Editing off a USB portable hard drive or even off a CF card minutes after shooting is soooo liberating. With many jobs having smaller budgets, tighter schedules and yet more footage (!), every moment is precious. Any minute I gain so I can familiarize myself with the footage and wrap my brain around a plan of attack makes life easier. When that time is spent transcoding to another format you can’t look at it, your computer is being tied up and huge monster-sized files are steadily filling your hard drives. The freedom to start cutting right away on Premiere is a huge treat. Even on my old Macbook Pro laptop and 2006 Mac Pro towers without the latest video cards, the Mercury Engine plays back smoothly and in real time. I will invest in better video cards at some point but for now, I’m happy and productive with the set up.

QUICK TIP #2: An editor should be as familiar with his footage as humanly possible. Keep looking through it until it is burned into your brain and you are batting away the monkeys attacking you in your dreams. Yah, that’s happened. Good times.

In another interview with Shane and Jacob Rosenberg, I learned that Adobe created Premiere CS5 with DLSRs in mind to keep the purest image, most latitude and highest quality from an 8-bit source. I don’t know what voodoo sorcery it is, but I have seen the results and the eyes don’t lie. It just looks better then transcoded footage. What’s great is that it doesn’t affect my editing at all and I know that when I hand off my cut to the VFX and colorist, they are going to make it shine and pop.

To be fair, I cut on Avid, FCP and Premiere every week and they all rock. What Shane and others are doing with the DSLR revolution, is showing that everyone has the opportunity to create stunning images to tell their stories. Right now, Premiere makes it easiest to handle DSLR footage and create your final product. That could change with the next release of FCP or Avid but until then, I’ll stick with Premiere.

I would like to share some of my editing set-ups that help me work quicker and more efficiently. If possible, try to edit on 2 monitors. They could be 17”, 21” or the enormous 30” bad boys. It really helps to have real estate for you to be creative and effective. I like to have just the source and program views above the timeline on one screen and my bins, effects and audio monitor on a separate screen. In my bins of footage I always use the biggest thumbnails possible and arrange them by shot in rows with the later takes to the right. This way I can find shot 4A/take 3 in a flash and not keep the director waiting while I…”uhmmmm…one sec (click), it should be (click), right here…(click), that’s not it…hold on (click), maybe…”. Yah, that’s happened. Good times. We are visual creatures, make it easy on yourself and use thumbnails instead of MVI_A005689.

I also like to drag the video layer 1 up so it’s taller and you can see the thumbnail on the timeline. Same for audio layer 1. Anything to make your timeline easier on the eyes and faster for your brain to comprehend will save time.

One of the biggest time-savers is to customize your keyboard to whatever you are most familiar with. I like to use the FCP keyboard preset inside Premiere, then make a couple more tweaks so I’m comfortable. I’ve cut on FCP since 2001 so I’m most confident with that layout and think it’s great that Premiere includes it and an Avid layout. NLEs are just tools so make them work for you in the best way possible.

QUICK TIP #3: I use this tip all day long. Inside the keyboard customization option under the EDIT tab at the top of Premiere…I like to assign the “maximize frame” button on the program screen to the “~” key.

Then, if you hover over any screen on the layout it will go FULL SCREEN when you hit the “~” key. Hit it again to return to the normal layout. Quick shout out to editor Chris Fenwick who posted this tip as well…super helpful!

Once all your settings, footage and game-plan are ready…it’s time to edit! Although the technical and aesthetic approach must be learned, there is one thing that is probably more important…Communication with the director/ad agency/creative/producer in charge of the project. It is your job as the editor to serve their vision and give them what they want. You are telling a story and physically creating something but at the end of the day (I promise not to use that term again) you have to deliver what they want. It’s often frustrating when what you think is a great idea or direction is the polar opposite of what they envision. Never take it personally and do everything you can in the first meetings to really get your brain around what they are after. Ask questions, feel the vibe, make suggestions and get to the core of what the project is as soon as possible. That investment up front will save you time and headaches down the road. At the same time, be your creative self. Stretch and reach for the freshest and most concise way to tell the story, be it a 30 second ad or a feature film. Editing is about rhythm and flow and no two projects are the same. Be malleable and adapt to each situation but always stay true to yourself. I cut a national car spot where I did 4 versions for the ad agency before any notes were given. We finished with 33 different cuts and the car company ended up picking one of my first 4 cuts! Go figure.

When Canon and Hurlbut Visuals released “The Last 3 Minutes,” I talked about using a couple “zero cuts” in the film. I received some questions about it and I never got around to explaining properly what that term is. Sorry it took me so long… A Zero Cut is when you take two separate takes of the same scene and cut them together with no dissolve. Hopefully the framing and action in the shots are very similar so it hides the cut (or makes it seamless) and you can then use the best parts of both takes.

The first one is when sultry Eli Jane snakes her way under the sheets. As soon as the sheet covers the frame, I cut to Eli already under the sheets. In the raw footage, the sheet went up and it took three or four seconds for Eli to get under there and it messed with the flow. So I cut on the sheet wipe and cut into another take of her.


The other zero cut was when the young couple “throw” their child into the air. They were handholding the 5D and tossing it up and catching it. As you can imagine, it took a boatload of takes to get the right framing and reactions. So I took the first part of one take and later part of another take. In the first frame, you see beautiful yet blurry Rachel Kolar’s hand is not visible. Then in the next frame, it is on his shoulder. Because the action is moving quickly, I didn’t think anyone would catch it…I hope I was right!

EDITING RULES YOU CAN BREAK AFTER YOU LEARN THEM:

1. When cutting from shot to shot, have at least a 30% change in shot size. Wide to Medium is good. CU to wide works. Medium to another Medium of same angle looks weird.

2. Try to cut on a motion to hide the edit. A raised hand, a head turn, a slammed door.

3. If you think a cut is too long…you’re right. It’s too long.

4. If a scene plays great in one shot…leave it alone. You don’t have to cut to CU, reverse, wide, medium. Let the story tell itself.

5. Overlap any action by 4 or 5 frames. Someone turns their head in a medium shot, on the next shot start the head turn 4 or 5 frames earlier (then the previous shot) and for some ridiculous reason it looks and feels right.

6. Don’t go bonkers over every cut. Often performance trumps continuity. Now if the lead actor’s shirt is a different color in two consecutive shots…you’re on your own!

7. With DSLRs I find you can scale a shot up to 40% and still have adequate sharpness if you need to reframe or make a medium shot a close up. Sneaky but I do it all the time.

8. As much as an editor feels he is saving the film, he’s probably not. There were a couple other people involved before he started editing.

9. Anyone who says “We’ll fix it in post!” needs to be made aware that they need to get it right during shooting.

I’d like to thank Shane and Lydia Hurlbut and everyone at Hurlbut Visuals for letting me ramble about editing and for creating the contagiously exciting environment around us that keeps getting better and better. Let’s keep this pioneering ability moving forward!

 

I can be contacted at:

Vashi Nedomansky
Twitter: @vashikoo
vashikoo@yahoo.com

If you’d like to see some of my work please visit:

www.vashivisuals.com
www.imdb.com/name/nm0624049/filmoyear

Author: Vashi

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46 Comments

  1. And I thought I was the only one who cropped in for a CU. Saves the day sometimes. And, never say we’ll fix it in post. Nice article.

    Post a Reply
    • Thanks Brandon. An editor should have a full quiver of tricks up his sleeve. Solve problems with creativity!

      Post a Reply
  2. Thanks for posting this. I love your 1-9 editing rules. Nice to know I’ve been sticking to these most of the time and breaking them only when absolutely necessary. Great post!

    Post a Reply
    • Thanks for the comments Heath! There were actually 10 tips but the last one didn’t make it…maybe for a future article! I love to share little editing secrets.

      Post a Reply
  3. Great post and some good tips. I edit now on FCP but am thinking of switching to the Adobe suite. In my day job I’ve found Windows 7 to be very robust and stable. If I do switch to PPro I’m also thinking of also going to Windows 7 to save money on the hardware. (Apple makes some great hardware but they charge top dollar for it.) Have you used PPro on Windows 7? What is your opinion about this?

    Post a Reply
    • I’ve cut on both Windows and Mac for Premiere and found no major differences…especially with CS5. On earlier projects, me and Bandito co-founder Scott Waugh were cutting on CS3 and used to keep a “crash count” which was punctuated by blood-curdling screams from our adjoining edit bays. Sometimes a dozen a day each! Ah the good old days!

      Post a Reply
    • You must embrace The Cave…it is your only friend in the dark recesses of The Edit.

      Post a Reply
  4. Great blog Vashi! I’ve always followed most of the tips you have at the end, but it is good to see them written down. Thank you!

    Post a Reply
    • Thanks for comment Willie. A lot more tips where that came from! It’s always cool to learn tricks to make your job easier and the day shorter.

      Post a Reply
  5. “If a scene plays great in one shot leave it alone.” Exactly! A lot of movies are a disaster in that respect and editors/directors mistakenly think that the public wants to see that crap. Only when the footage is insufficient, we can do it (pre-title sequences Quantum of Solace!!)
    “Overlap any action by 4 or 5 frames.” You’re right. That’s not in the books, but it’s true!
    “We can scale up a 5D shot 40%?” That’s great. We can re-framing the shot… if necessary. I’m familiar with Premiere and look forward to the 5D and CS5.
    Thanks!

    Post a Reply
    • CS5 Premiere rocks hard. The time saved and the snappy responsiveness keeps me from going slightly more insane then normal!

      Post a Reply
  6. just installed Adobe Master CS5 on my late 2006 Macbook Pro/3G memory. works amazing.
    I’m a big fan using AE CS4 so CS5 must be much better, but I can’t quit PP. It’s great to import my 7D footage straight out the CF card and edit. Loving PP in CS5!! I’ve been using FCP for years. I’m keeping FCP, but right now I will be working and testing PP for long.

    One of the new MBP from 2K11 will be my next purchase to really enhance the mercury engine in CS5.

    Post a Reply
    • Instant editing off the card is mind-blowing. I’m cutting a P2 project as we speak and the ingest and back-up of the files has me thumb-twiddling and playing Angry Birds for far too long as I wait to start.

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  7. Vashi, great post! I’m in the process of training two editors and I’ll be directing them to this blog. Good stuff. Hope to read more from you.

    Post a Reply
    • Thanks Matt for the kind words! I’ve got a bag of tricks that might be pried open if you guys want more tips. Feels good to share the knowledge. When training your editors do you prefer a leather or rope cat-o-nine-tails? “2 frame slip! L-cut! 7 frame dissolve? What’s wrong with you!”

      Post a Reply
  8. Great blog and thank you so much for taking the time to school some of us editors. Question: Everyone preaches flat picture styles, but I have yet to find much about using what the style produces to create the most vivid, sharp product, although Hurlbut and Bloom obviously do it all the time. I shoot flat and go in afterwords and tweak… but I have no idea if I am doing it right… “could it be better” I keep asking myself.

    I guess I am trying to get a basic work-flow with flat footage to finished product. Thanks! ~ Duane

    Post a Reply
  9. Great post, and your top tips are priceless. Looking forward to hearing from you more on the blog.

    Post a Reply
  10. When you say:
    7. With DSLRs I find you can scale a shot up to 40% and still have adequate sharpness if you need to reframe or make a medium shot a close up. Sneaky but I do it all the time.

    What output are you going for? SD, HD or cinema?

    Would it differ if it is for Cinema?

    Post a Reply
    • Kyle K., yes, I find with cinema 2%-5% is about all you can go in. The image starts to get soft real quick. Vashi is talking about small screen. I found that any shot I had to stabilize would go soft because I had to push in to stabilize the image in after effects.

      Post a Reply
  11. Nice post! Would love to see more. Always fascinating to read other people’s rules.

    Post a Reply
    • Thanks Lu. Many more tips in my brain. If we get some good feedback maybe Shane will let me another one. Stay tuned!

      Post a Reply
  12. Really good post, thanks for sharing so much. Since no one else asked this, this is prob a really stupid question but are the two piano keyboards used for editing or are you musically inclined as well? Thanks again.

    Post a Reply
    • Yes, I write music and actually scored a couple projects for Shane that are coming out in the future. Also, there are no stupid questions, just unanswered ones.

      Post a Reply
  13. “5. Overlap any action by 4 or 5 frames. Someone turns their head in a medium shot, on the next shot start the head turn 4 or 5 frames earlier (then the previous shot) and for some ridiculous reason it looks and feels right.”

    Cool tip. Perhaps this is due to the time the viewer’s brain takes to find the action in the new cut, and make sense of what just happened?

    Post a Reply
  14. Nice article, good info!

    “5. Overlap any action by 4 or 5 frames. Someone turns their head in a medium shot, on the next shot start the head turn 4 or 5 frames earlier (then the previous shot) and for some ridiculous reason it looks and feels right.”

    I read something similar in Edward Dmytryk’s “On Film Editing” and since that text is now over 25 years old, wondered if it was still relevant, with today’s audience, raised on blisteringly cut film and videos and 60 fps videogames.

    I’ll take your endorsement of it still being so. Any reason why it works? I believe Dmytryk said that every time a cut is make, the audience blinks, and the overlap allows them to maintain continuity.

    Although, if this was 100% true, nobody would ever see a Michael Bay film, as their eyes would constantly be shut.

    Post a Reply
  15. Hi
    you are regarding person in Shane’s Elite group

    don’t you user cineform NeoHD “http://vimeo.com/19908622″

    what’s your opinion about it?

    thx.

    Post a Reply
    • Taha, yes I use cineform all the time. It is a very good codec.

      Post a Reply
  16. Fantastic blog guys! I just stumbled across it from the B&H newsletter. Thanks for sharing your insights Vashi!

    “7. With DSLRs I find you can scale a shot up to 40% and still have adequate sharpness if you need to reframe or make a medium shot a close up. Sneaky but I do it all the time.”

    I’ve always felt a strange sense of guilt doing this, glad to know I’m not the only one. :)

    I can’t wait to start tearing through the rest of this blog.

    Děkuji vám!

    Post a Reply
  17. Thank you for sharing your insights and expertise with us. I am looking for an i/o box for my macpro 2x Quadcore to output an SDI signal to my Ikegami monitor that would work with Premiere CS5.

    Thank you and continued success.

    Sid Levin
    FirstFrame, Inc.

    Post a Reply
  18. great tips vashi, i use adobe myself and u really made me fall in luv with it more pls i will like to know the best way to render footage after editing on adobe and also i have a blackmagic 3d extreme and i dont how to get the best out of it can you pls share more light on it for me….

    Post a Reply
    • Thanks bakky for the comment, glad you dug the tips! In regards to rendering footage after editing I assume you mean creating master files? I always use Adobe Media Encoder and either use the presets built in or create my own. In Premiere its under File – Export to open Encoder. Under the Video tab I activate the Render at Maximum Depth tab. At the bottom I also activate the Use Maximum Render Quality tab too. I kick out everything from there and use DPX if were doing further color work otherwise h.264/quicktime for all the other master files. I’m not familiar with the blackmagic 3d extreme so can’t help with that. I’ve had no problem kicking straight out of Premiere to finish the project. Hope that helps! All the best…Vashi

      Post a Reply
  19. Vashi,

    I’ve noticed that when you shoot 24p with HDSLR sometimes you get a “choppy” looking image, usually when the talent is moving. Does CS5 help with “shoothing” out the motion better that FCP or AVID?

    Post a Reply
  20. Hi Vashi, thanks for your editing rules. I’m a corporate film maker and lecturer. Your post is very helpful to my students and I’ve been referring them here.

    I shoot events as well and I find very helpful your QuickTips #1 Always shoot as much as possible. Especially as events can never be recreated again and there’s no 2nd take.

    Thanks for the rules, I’m sure many of us editors have them, we just never got to listing them down. Many many editors will benefit from your post. Thanks :)

    Post a Reply
  21. Hello

    Good tips, very helpful post.

    I want to share how I menage the footage, when I edit – maybe someone has better workflow. First: I shoot mostly with Sony EX1, and for example when I shot with this camera for a long documentary, every day at evening I saved my rushes on an external HDD. But for avoid to have thousands of separate clips, I saved them in a single file, or in some, about 20 min length. The result was files like: oct1, oct2_1, oct2_2, etc. On the edit I import these files, and finding easy the right take. Easier then dealing with many little clips for every take. No conversion, just putting together with the same codec. I cut in FCP, for that it was justified to transcode in this step to ProRes HQ, for further grading. How you menage so many takes in other way? But how about premier Pro? I will cut soon a movie shoot with Canon 60D, should I put together all the clips in a single file? This mean a generation loss, if I export with the same AVCHD codec or better transcode it in ProRes HQ from the beginning? But for PP no need for transcoding. So, what you suggest for better navigate between the clips?

    Post a Reply
    • I would recommend Premiere Pro if you have access or can buy it before the price goes back up. I’ve had nothing but a great experience on it and the time saved NOT transcoding and making huge files has been wonderful. I just finished a major project (coming out first week of november) that tested the limits of PP and it passed with flying colors, no crashes and flawless performance.

      I prefer individual files for the edit process so it’s easier to sort through each scene and make manageable bins to keep things as organized as possible.

      Hope that helps!

      Vashi

      Post a Reply
  22. Ive been using my core 2 duo 1.8 machince for quite a while and finding it hard to edit (canon 550d) without transcoding into huge file sizes. My question is would a 2007/8 macbook pro core 2 duo 2.4 be able to hadnle the footage without transcoding using premire?

    Post a Reply
    • Chevy,

      I also have a MB pro 2 duo 2.4 (4 gig RAM) and have no problem editing 5D/7D h.264 footage natively off both FW 800/400 and even USB. I would recommend that on the playback monitor…choose playback resolution of 1/2 or 1/4 for real-time playback and full resolution on paused playback.

      Enjoy and let me know if that works for you….

      Vashi

      Post a Reply
  23. I would recommend Premiere Pro if you have access or can buy it before the price goes back up. I’ve had nothing but a great experience on it and the time saved NOT transcoding and making huge files has been wonderful. I just finished a major project (coming out first week of november) that tested the limits of PP and it passed with flying colors, no crashes and flawless performance.

    I prefer individual files for the edit process so it’s easier to sort through each scene and make manageable bins to keep things as organized as possible.

    Hope that helps!

    Vashi

    Post a Reply
  24. Awesome post! Loved it, however can you explain what CU means for me? Thanks! : )

    Post a Reply
    • Nevermind… Close Up! : ) Got it! Haha!

      Post a Reply
  25. Man, I love this site and the contributions of ALL of you! I’m working my bum off to make a great feature film director someday, learning the ins and outs of every facet of filmmaking, while my wife makes our living moolah. This site is the true PRO information that I’ve been looking for! Googling just brings up way too much bad advice! Anyway, thank you guys SO MUCH! Thank you, Vashi! Thank you, Shane! Thank you, Hurlbut Visuals! Thank you for the wonderful and informative day of reading I just had! I can’t wait to start applying all the new knowledge! Please, tell Shane I said thank you! I do have ONE question on this post: What’s the after edit workflow? What I mean is, what do you do (process, filetype, etc.) before handing it off to the colorist? My reason for asking is because I’ve still been using FCP because of its ability to handle prores 422 LT and have that hold up in color grading with Apple Color. h264 seems to break down like a sack of potatoes so, I want to know what you do after the edit is finished. I have the Adobe CS5 Master Collection (also a graphic designer with a web design minor) but have been putting Premiere on the backburner because of coloring complications. Thank you!

    Post a Reply
    • Page,

      Thanks for visiting the site and enjoying the knowledge we are sharing. Believe me, I learn so much every time Shane posts a blog it’s insane! In regards to your question…I think I have nice workaround. If you have both FCP and CS5 then you can export an XML from FCP and open it in Premiere. The same timeline you have should open in PPro. My other question is did you shoot with a DSLR? You mentioned h.264 and it not interacting with Color too well. Premiere CS5 actually handles h.264 natively and will give you access to the full color and data information in 32-bit float. Shane did extensive research into this and concluded it to be extremely responsive and easy to grade compared to Pro Res and other transcoded formats. You might have to unlink and relink to the source h.264 files after you open the timeline in PPro that has your ProRes LT files. It will be well worth it once you play with the color grade out of PPro. To do that you, can see what your colorist uses, but a DPX sequence would be your best bet if you would like to maintain the most quality and use a 10-bit workflow. Hope that helps and let me know if you have any other questions! all the best, Vashi Nedomansky

      Post a Reply
  26. Vashi,
    Thanks for the detailed response! I’m not worried about the old projects, just my workflow moving forward. So, my current LT’s are irrelevant, but I like your suggestion and will definitely pocket it for future reference! Yes, I’m using a Canon 60D but I’m switching to the 7D in a few days because it just looks better than the 60D. It handles the compression better.

    I tinkered around this morning and found in my Sequence Settings that “Max Bit Depth” and “Max Rendering Quality” were UNchecked. So, I checked them and then, as per Adobe’s warning box suggestion, I changed the Memory preference to “Memory” instead of “Performance” and then restarted the app. When I did, a little color grading experiment I was testing within PPro instantly looked better. I gave it a rough test; blank wall behind me. The compression banding on the wall cleared up to what I would expect it to look like normally. And I looked better… at least as far as color rendering goes.
    I don’t want to grade in PPro; I just did it to experiment, but that tells me that I should get a good result from coloring h.264 outside PPro now, right?

    Is that all, or did I miss something else, like having to actually tell PPro to use 32-bit float or something? I start my sequence with the DSLR 1080 24p sequence preset.

    In summary, I’m understanding this to be dslr > PPro > XML to colorist > XML color render from colorist > PPro > h.264 to final output for streaming or whatever format I need for whatever purpose lol. Is that correct? That is really no different than my current workflow, except that I don’t have to transcode, and I’m using PPro instead of FCP 7… all of which is awesomely exciting, by the way. It just doesn’t seem right because it’s so simple. lol I don’t mean to sound ignorant or anything, but quite honestly, I’m not sure I understand what you mean by the DPX sequence. lol I know what that is, of course, but I mean, just take a program like Apple Color or Davinci Resolve… What’s best? The XML? Or this DPX sequence, and how should that be setup?

    I know I’m being a nuisance, but you’re the only person I’ve found with the knowledge to help me hash this out. The whole coloring process from PPro to a coloring program and back is the ONLY thing holding me back from leaving FCP in the dust for good. I’m just confused by all the wrong information I’ve already ingested that never worked. Sorry, but thank you very much!
    If it helps the conversation: Right now, my only delivery medium is the internet, but I’m working on some bigger projects that might change that, and I’ve been using Apple Color to grade everything. But I have Davinci Resolve and After Effects and can use both for grading (I try to stay versatile).

    What’s a P.O. Box for you, and what kinds of things do you like? You deserve a little Christmas present for this.

    Post a Reply
  27. Hey,

    shouldnt it be “start the head turn 4 or 5 frames earlier (THAN the previous shot”? Otherwise it is confusing, for me at least :D

    Post a Reply

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