On the still lens front, you have a variety of options. I am addressing this topic from a 40 foot screen digital projection perspective, not a still photography one.
ZEISS ZE PRIMES
21mm-Zeiss-ZE
Zeiss ZE primes rock. Their resolution is spectacular and they are lightweight. Their focus is a little more cinematic then a Canon or a Nikon, so it gives your focus puller a chance.
28mm-Zeiss-ZE
The lenses do breathe, which means they zoom in or zoom out when you rack focus. This asthetetic bothers some people so you should see if you like it and or can deal with it.
CANON L SERIES PRIMES
Canon L Series 35mm
Canon L Series 85mm
Canon L series primes deliver very beautiful, sharp images. They do not resolve as well as the Zeiss primes. So you will loose a little detail and color gradation choices in post. If you are fine with that, then the Canon primes are a great choice. Their zooms are not as sharp as the primes and they don’t hold contrast as well.
Canon L Series Lenses
The Canon EF lenses cannot hold up on the big screen. I used them on the first 2 shooting days of the Navy SEAL movie and they were just plain soft. When I went into color correction, I was not able to have the full range of detail of the 8 BIT compressed color space, that I had with the L series or the Nikons. Canon lenses also have one tricky issue: the endless focus wheel. It is amazing for a still photographer but not a trained focus puller. Companies like Zacuto have put lens stops on their zip gears to try and correct the problem but it is still something to contend with.
NIKON AI SERIES PRIMES
Nikon AI Series 28 mm
Nikon AI Series 50 mm
Nikon glass delivers well with the AI series. They were the cream of the crop back in the late 1970’s and early 1980′s and still are in my book. They deliver images just like the Zeiss in contrast but the glass has a warmer tone. However, their focus range is short like the Canon’s.
LEICA R SERIES PRIMES
Leica 35 mm R Series
I tested Leica and found that they delivered beautiful contrast and color throughout. They felt the closest to the Panavision Primo primes and had more of a cinema focus throw, even more than the Zeiss ZE primes. These lenses resolve so well on the big screen.
HASSELBLAD MEDIUM FORMAT ZEISS PRIMES
50 mm Hasselblad Medium Format
150 mm Hasselblad Medium Format
Hasselblad medium format lenses were very interesting on the 5D. It had the same contrast and color of the Zeiss ZE Primes. You need to check it out. They have an amazing cinema focus throw, but breathe like the Zeiss. I like the large focus markings and the weight, they felt really nice on my Red Rock Micro shoulder rig. As long as you feel comfortable shooting above a 4.0 these lenses are a great choice.
With all of the lens options out there, these are still just tools. The story and the characters are KING! These players all have a back story that never makes it to the screen, but it is the thread, the tapestry that binds the film. Find that thread, follow it to dream and create your next work of art!!!!
Tags: lense choice, Lenses, spon-canon, spon-zeiss
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Shane,
Your blog is awesome and thank you so much for generously sharing your experience and information here.
I have been collecting some nice primes for my kit and need a zoom on occasion. Given an option between the canon 70-200mm F/2.8 IS I or IS II which one would you choose? I noticed the comment about the second IS stabilization being not as organic looking so hence my question.
Thanks!
Damon
Damon Roger, thank you so much for your kind words. Stay with the older, cheaper version. That is what I roll out with.
Hi again Shane,
I’m coming more back with more questions, but I hope others will also learn something about choosing the set of primes when these questions get answered. I promise after this I’ll let you in peace for long while
So I have Zeiss ZEs 21, 35, 50, 85, and 15mm will be now on the wait list to see if that can be cinemoded.. but i’d love to have that 15mm as a wide angle, since 21mm on S35 sensor is really not that wide in my opinion.
Would buying 25mm lens between 21mm and 35mm make any sense? Jump from 21 to 35 is kinda long and the question is, if having 25 or 28 in between are too marginal in difference? If 25mm, the difference would be small with 21mm. With 28mm, the difference to 35mm would be even tad smaller. I’d get bit better differences in field of views if i rather went 21mm -25mm -35mm than 21mm -28mm -35mm. So in this point 25mm is winner.
I’ve seen 25/2 to beat 28/2 on resolution charts amazingly, 25 is sharp, 28 was soft and had some CA sort of blurry looking color abbreviation in the test sheet. 25 won on this category on very clear margin.
So it is 2-0 in favour of 25mm lens agains the 28mm. 25mm would reduce a bit that perspective distortion that I can get when shooting faces in tight spaces. So I come back to my question is there any point of having 21, 25, 35 instead of only having 21, 35? Is this perspective distortion difference (especially in close-up of people) between 21 and 25 be big enough and give me so much more realistic shaped heads that it would would justify having the both lenses? Generally speaking Is jump from 21 to 35 too big without anything between? Vincent Laforet said in his blog that CP.2 25mm is the lens he has on the most, so i guess the lens is good alrounder to have.
Would you say 21, 35, 50, 85 is already a good all-round set that would cover most of the situations without much troubles? Should I add 15mm to get the really wide in cropped sensor? Should I add 25mm just to have a wide option with little less perspective distortion and cap the large difference between current 21 and 35?
Sorry for making it so long, but I hope it helped me to be clearer.
Thanks for helping us n00bies :)
Tuomas
Tuomas Sebastien, it is never a problem for you to go into depth about a lens decision. We are all here to learn, right? I have read everything that you have posted. Here is the deal. If there was one lens that I never use it would be the 25mm. It distorts, yes it is sharp but this is a lens that never is in my kit. I use a Panavision 27mm, a Cooke 32mm, and Zeiss Ultra Prime 29mm to bridge that gab between the 21mm. I know the 28mm ZE and CP2 are not that great, but the 28mm Leica R is stellar. There is my 2 cents. I welcome all of your questions and thanks for your support
Thanks Shane for very very quickly reply. Amazing! I’m still little not sure should I bridge the cap or not? You have luxury of having many lenses to cap it with. Unfortunately I don’t. I’m sure Leica is stellar but I’d really want to keep the kit all Zeiss so that then I can cinemod them to “poor man’s CP.2 with superspeeds” ( to see how they look like: http://www.dslrnewsshooter.com/2012/08/27/birtv-2012-gl-optics-zeiss-ze-cinema-lens-conversions-for-eos-mount/ ) . I’d also would like to have the kit with same brand lenses to get similar looks from them all.
So if you suddenly wouldn’t have your Panavision 27mm, Cooke 32mm, Zeiss Ultra 29mm to go with… would ZE 25mm in this situation become useful to you when you already have 21mm and 35mm? Or would you say 28mm would be more useful and why? Or would you just say 21mm and 35mm is enough and the situations where something in the between is needed would be very uncommon?
Tuomas Sebastien, I would not use a 25mm, I would go for the 28mm
Thank you
Just want to add few questions.. from Zeiss ZE lenses your dream set of lenses would include what? ZE 50 Macro & ZE 100 Macro lenses are excluded from these sets because I can’t get the cinemodded.
1) Your 4-lenses set would include which ZE lenses?
2) Your 5-lenses set would include which ZE lenses?
3) Your 6-lenses set would include which ZE lenses?
Thanks:)
Tuomas Sebastien, these are for a 5D correct?
4 Lens set: 21, 35, 50,85
5 Lens Set: 18, 21, 35, 50, 85
6 Lens Set: 18, 21, 28, 35, 50, 85
Thank you. What about with cropped sensor 7D, FS100 etc?
Hi Shane, I’d still like to know how these sets should be with 1.5-1.6 cropped sensor?
I have money aside for a shoulder rig and Canon 50mm 1.2 lens but now I’m afraid to buy it since you said it won’t hold up on the big screen. I am working on a feature and I want it to hold up well on screen. So which lens 50mm do I buy? For a second lens, which lens do I buy?
My two cents, I just read your post Tuomas and I am currently have your exact same range in Zeiss ZF.2s. I really don’t have a problem going from 21 to 35mm. I would personally save the money on the 25mm or 28mm for other stuff, maybe a 135mm f2???;)
Best Regards,
Ruben
Thanks for this insanely nice post, Shane!
Really some great reading… Still a bit confused though. So unsure whether to go with Canons L series, or the Carl Zeiss – I mainly do films, but occasionally have a still photography assignment!
Is the difference between the L series and Zeiss really that big in sharpness and over all pleasing image?
Viktor, you are very welcome, the difference is in color saturation and contrast. I feel the Zeiss look a little more video looking than the Canon, but the Leica R’s to me look the most filmic of the still glass.
What about adding a black promist filter to crush some of the video look? Has anyone tried this with success?
Mr Hurlbut, thanks for unique way to teach the things. Thanks for a blog that not review every new camera in the market, thanks for staying away from consume talk.
I should not do this but I am going to try to recomend you a LENS. Sorry master. Lately I have been working with FUJINON´s EBC M42 and I got very surprised. I own Leica´s R, Zeiss, Nikkors and many more and Fujinon´s got something special in the way they render the colors and a very pleasant OOF. If you can give them a try I would be very happy.
Thanks master.
Ignacio Sanchez, thanks so much for your kind words and support and thanks for sharing your lens. I will look into it. Peace
Hi Shane,
First, thank you for taking the time to educate us on these and other topics. I find your blog very helpful and entertaining. I have a few questions. 1) You mentioned some books to read for aspiring cinematographers in another post that I can’t seem to find. What were those books? 2) You mentioned sticking to only prime lenses…and the 24-70 wouldn’t hold up…is this true for cameras with higher resolutions such as the 1DC or the C300? My third question is how do I get on your elite team?! I would love a chance to work and learn from you!
Thanks!
Ryan
Ryan Bradshaw, Thank you so much for these kind words. I just launched a blog post about the books because of your comment. The 24-70 will do very well with the 1DC and C300. Please contact anne@hurlbutvisuals.com for details.
Hi Shane,
ever had a chance to film with a Samyang? Do they hold up on the big screen?
Thanks!
Manuel
Manuel, no I haven’t. Very sorry
Thanks for your answer, Shane. This post made me think a lot. I believe you should soon publish a book with all your experience, I’m sure it would be a best seller!
By the way…I have noticed some iris jitter with my Zeiss 35mm ZE 2.0 on my 1D mark IV…So I’m brought to get some manual ZF objectives plus EF mount to avoid any electronic interferences…Have you ever noticed any iris jitter during your work? And another question…Do you suggest declicking the Zeiss lenses or you think it might hurt the lenses?
Thanks and keep up the good work! Manuel
Manuel, thank you so much for your kind words and support. I like the Zeiss ZF and then de-click is absolutely essential and doesn’t hurt the lens. Never had that iris jitter
Hi Shane,
thank you for sharing your experience, I’m really enjoying this blog.
After much deliberation I recently invested in a Nikon D800 for photography and narrative film making.
Along with the camera I bought the Nikkor 50mm 1.4g, and Nikkor 70-200VR11 2.8, both of which I am happy with, although I have not yet had the opportunity to see any of my footage on a cinema screen yet.
My question is, as technology is evolving and lenses at the same time, is it likely that the current batch of Nikkor’s best glass be able to stand the rigors of a digital cinema projection?
Also as I am on the market for a reasonably priced wide angle lens, would you recommend Nikkor’s 20mm AI 2.8 or Nikkor’s AIS 2.8? Or is there another lens within the same price bracket that would prove fruitful on the silver screen?
Thank you again for sharing your experience and your time.
Regards
Josh
Josh, thank you so much for your kind words. I like the 20mm AI myself. All of the AI and AIS lenses are kick ass. Love the golden tones that come from that glass.
Hello there,
So interestingly I ended up on this blog after watching Act of Valor and thinking to myself “what camera shot this? how can I get this look? This cinematography is killer I must know more” So props to you because i immediately got online and lead myself to this blog. On to my question…
I am in a situation where i have a decent budget to build a great camera/lense set up entirely from scratch. I currently own a 60d but I soon plan to get the 5D Mark III or the Black Magic Cinema Camera (After seeing Act of Valor I dont feel the need to spend the money on a C300 or Red or FS700). I need to get some lenses to go with this that are going to make my footage big screen ready and last a life time but not completely break the bank… so lenses like those shown above seem right. I’m kinda a noob to the lense game so bear with me.
In my situation… Would you go with Zeiss ZE or Canon L series? Or something else? Or would you mix/match?
After that, which lenses if you had to compose a go-to 4 lense kit from scratch? and what if you could throw in a 5th?
Additionally, I currently own a Tokina 11-16 mm… any experience with this? Do you think I could get away with this as my superwide? or does this not match up to the quality of the lenses mentioned above?
And finally, how do you feel about the upcoming Black Magic Cinema Camera? any ideas? vs the 5d?
Thanks for your time! I appreciate your responsiveness and your artist work!! :)
-Hunter
To add to my last post… I’ve been doing further research into your posts. I see that you like the Panavision Primos… I can’t find the cost on those but I assume they are much higher than the Zeiss ZE’s or Canon L’s?? I definitely cant spend 3-4K per lense. Are there leica lenses that are comparable in price/quality to the aforementioned lenses? and do u think its worth it to have lenses cinemodded? or should i just go for an affordable gear to throw on the lenses?
Additionally, I notice among posts that there may be certain times when it is best to use a 7D over a 5D? do u have a post on this? if not.. how did you go about choosing to use 5d or 7d for a shot when on act of valor?
Thanks so much!!
Dear Shane,
superb post!..
Agree with you totally on the Leica R lenses, they are super beautiful, I slowly over time and when money allowed put together a set then leitax modded each one, I liked them that much I ask a tech to hardfront my IIC with an EOS Mount.
Cheers,
Sean
Sean M, thank you so much for your kind words. They are amazing. I love the lower contrast but sharp. Secret sauce.
Hello! First of all I want to really thank you for all the work you put into the dslr world and the inspiration that cause us, been watching all your behind the scenes!
Since you’ve tested all and more I wanted to ask you what brand of Nikon to EOS adapter do you recommend the most? I’m asking because the one I got has a little play between the lens and the camera body… and when using it with a follow focus the image moves a little every time I pull focus… it’s a shame since the 105mm 2.5 is a superb lens!
I’ll be really glad if yu could tell me THE adapte.. haha!
Thanks so much again and good luck!!!!
Cheers from Argentina!
Juan B, thank you for all of your kind words. Hello from Argentina, my favorite country. I love it there. You can not go cheap on the adapter. Fotodiox has the best one but it will cost you around 140.00. All the others have serious play and wreck your shot.
Thank you VERY much for your reply Shane!!! Glad to hear it’s your favourite country haha!!! Will invest on the adapter.. goodbye!!!
Take also a look at http://www.lockcircle.com/primecircle_xt_lenses/ Cine-mod Zeiss ZF lenses.
Menno Mennes, thank you so much I will check them out.
Hi shane, good evening. You helped me a lot giving precious information through your Cinematography education programme. Thanks.
Seeing your blog I have purchased Nikon AI lenses (24mm f/2.8, 50mm f/1.8 and 135mm f/2.8)and they perform well. I have drafted myself a design and customised them for voideo. It worked wonders. Now it is very convenient to focus precisely, as I increased the focus gear ring diameter to 13cm!. And also it perfectly match with my mattebox. Please see the link below.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=548484228512287&set=a.548484091845634.135545.100000521441807&type=1&theater
RAGHU IRIKKUR, they look very cool. I am so glad you like them. I love that glass. Looks so cinematic. Thanks for all the kind words
Hi Shane,
Where can the Leica R lenses be purchased? And how do they compare to the M series?
Great tests otherwise.
Gareth, ebay is how I got them, you need to really look for awhile. The M series doesn’t work. Here is a blog I wrote about the Leica R’s http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2010/07/leica-r-mount-lenses-for-the-canon-hdslrs/
Thanks for the reply. The other thing I wanted to know is if the Nikon AIS lenses are as good or better than the AI lenses. And how do they compare to Zeiss ZF.2 in terms sharpness and overall quality?
Hi Shane, thanks for your great blog. Have you ever tryed Zeiss C/Y (contax / yashica)? How they compare to the newer Zeiss models and old Nikon Ai? Bests!
And Leica R as well.
Hi Shane,
love the great amount of information that you share with the rest of the world!
One question I have is how did you mount the medium format lenses to the 5D?
Ho Zhen Jie, Thank you so much for you kind words and support. We mounted the Mamiya and the Hasselblad with Fotodiox adapters.
Hi Shane,
I’m a big fan of your work. It’s great to see how A list DPs have embraced digital. My question is, what should an underground filmmaker do if they are using a 60d which only has an EFS fitting. Won’t convertors from EFS to alternate fittings compromise the metering & in camera aperture? I know that in Stop Motion when you switch over to a manual Nikon lens it does, which complicates things slightly but can be overcome as the camera and lighting setups are stationary. But if I am shooting live subjects in an evolving environment I would think that the disadvantages on the fly of using an adapter would outweigh the gains.
Is it possible to sharpen the image in post? With the 60D’s sensor even the stock lens over realizes the image for 1920×1080. It’s meant for a much larger image. So if we’re already maximizing the pixel spread by shooting an image much smaller than the sensor is built to handle, how does the breakup occur due to glass? Could the EFS issue you ran into be because the 5D Mark III is meant for L fitting glass (though I am not entirely sure what camera you tested the EFS glass on)? You would have to use an adapter to use EFS on a 5D, right?
Ideally I would like to avoid adapters if at all possible. Thank you for taking the time to read my question.
Thanks,
Scott
Scott. Thanks for the kind words and support. That is true, when you use a lens adapter you can no longer meter in camera. I never use histograms or in camera metering. I expose by eye and use a light meter. You can sharpen a little bit in post, but it doesn’t work great. When shooting with DSLR’s I always bake in my look, and get the image where I want it on the day of shooting. Not in post. The quality of the lenses you use are what give you a sharp image. EF lenses are great for shooting stills, but not for filmmaking. Hope that helps.
Hi Shane,
Great blog!! I’ve learnt so much from your site. Thank you.
I noticed in your ACT OF VALOR blogs that you used a few different lens makes, such as Panavision, Canon and Zeiss. Did you find any issues mixing lenses in scenes, such as different temperatures and contrasts and if so, how did you overcome the differences and ultimately match your shots?
Thanks,
George
George. Thanks so much for the kind words and support. Yes we used all different types of glass with all different qualities of color temperature. In our grading sessions we we’re easily able to balance all the different lens types and have the visuals feel seamless.
Shane,
First, I am a HUGE fan! If you are ever in need of a PA please keep me in mind. Second, I am looking for some lenses with a manual iris controls, but when I contacted Duclos they said there weren’t any adapters that they would recommend. Do you have any thoughts or suggestions?
Thanks,
Ryan Bradshaw
Ryan Bradshaw, what lenses do you want to adapt? Fotodiox have the best adapters I think.
I have a few Canon FD lenses that I’d like to use. I’ll look into Fotodiox. Thanks Shane!
To clarify, I’m trying to go FD to EF.
Hi Shane, Love your work. I’m looking to invest in manual nikkor lenses and would like to know if there is any real dif. In image quality between the non-ai version compared to the ai versions? Thanks!
Mendel, not really, I like both and have both types and love them
Hi,
fantastic advise!
I’m shooting what will be my second feature and aiming for the big screen
I have a canon d650 and upon reading about cinema friendly lens have opted for either one of the Nikon A1 series primes (budget dictating)
will these bad boys be compatible with my camera?
regards
Kenny
beefthemovie, thank you for your kind words. Yes as long as you have a Nikon to Canon adapter from fotodiox you are good to go.
thanks for the reply!
just bagged a Nikon AI 50mm as above f1.8 for a decent price.
seems ok, aperture feels a bit gritty on certain f stops, glass looks good and no signs of fungus however, on closer inspection I noticed what looks like a small hair inside the lens (center) can this cause a problem as I intend to use this for video? if not panic over otherwize can I open this puppy and clean it myself? regards, Kenny
Have you used Zeiss Contax Yashica Lenses before? What are your thoughts?
-Thanks
Geoff, no I haven’t, sorry
Hi, Shane
Does it matter the Zeiss ZE lenses do not have a manual aperture ring or does it make more sense to use the Zeiss ZF.2′s with an adapter? Also, do the improvements in the Mark III justify the price or is the Mark II still a viable investment even with the aliasing and more issues?
Thanks.
RobG
RobG. I prefer the ZF lenses to have manual control over the Aperture and have all my manual lenses cine moded from Duclos http://www.ducloslenses.com/pages/cine-mod to to be able to dial in the aperture in 1/10th of a stop increments. With this you have more control over the exposure and be able to do Iris pulls. I still use and love the image of the 5DMkII, but the 5DMkIII has some nice features over the MkII. Longer record time, ability to save your settings on an SD card, More audio control, and better light sensitivity. Thanks for the comment and support.
Hi, Shane
Thank you for your response. I have one other question. I have pretty much decided on my 5D cinema package. I know there isn’t one magic pill that does everything but, I have decided to go with the Zeiss ZF.2′s (21, 35, 50, 85) and will go through the cine mod. I read you like these lenses but they have more contrast than others. Are there ways to tone down the contrast and would that be a reason not to buy these lenses? My head is spinning from all the research. :)
Thanks again for all you do.
RobG
RobG. I do like the ZF’s but if you have the budget for them Leica R’s with the leitax mount is the best hands down. Lower contrast and sharper. The Zeiss glass is sharp, but too contrasty at times.
Mr. Hurlbut,
Thank you for taking your time to do this blog. It has helped me a lot.
I am about to buy my first DSLR (Canon T3i) and I was wondering what two or three lenses I should buy. I heard that you should start off with a zoom and a 50mm. Is this what you would reccomend?
-Rafel
Rafel. I wrote this post and it still holds true. http://www.hurlbutvisuals.com/blog/2010/02/still-lenses/. Zooms for versatility and primes for speed and sharpness.
Thank you so much, Mr. Hurlbut. This will help.
-Rafel
Hi Shane,
Really love the work that you do. I’m just getting into DSLR video and don’t necessarily have the means to afford the newer Zeiss glass yet being a broke college grad and all :p .. What are your thoughts on some of the older Contax Zeiss lenses? Do they hold up as well?
Thanks again for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us,
Regards,
Hari
Hi Shane,
Thank you again for your awesome posts. I think we both agree that Primos are the best cine lenses ever made. However, since we can’t own em, what would you say is the best cine lens set money could buy?
Hi Shane,
I was wondering what adapter do you use for getting Nikon AI lenses on Canon mounts?
By the way, keep up the good work.
Dominik
Dominik Belancic. I use Fotodiox adapters. Thanks for the comment and support.