Reaper
Making HD look like film has a cocktail and one of the essential ingredients to this flavorful recipe is Neutral Density. You have to keep your exposure on a 5D around a 5.6 to get that beautiful shallow depth of field. The 7D should be around a 2.8, and the 1D around a 4.0. This gives the focus puller a chance and still keep a beautiful fall off of focus.
The Canon cameras allow what has never been achieved before with most of the HD platform cameras. They never had a vista-vision sensor in them. It was always a 2/3 chip sensor or a 35mm sensor size with more depth of field than anyone would want or know what to do with.
I recently did a slew of tests for the Bandito Brothers Production Company and we discovered how cheap ND (Neutral Density) limited our color correction options. Green is one of my favorite colors but not what bad green filtration does to a beautiful image with depth and color.
Hoya ND
We had a test where I was shooting five 5D’s side by side with different ND filtration from a variety of manufacturers. The color difference was astounding. Muddy, green and flat was the feeling I was getting from an $11.00 HOYA filter. www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/oef-05.html
Schneider ND
When I moved to the next camera it had a Schneider that seemed somewhat clean, but not perfect. www.schneideroptics.com/industrial/filters/Neutral_Density.htm?gclid=CM_NhqTH258CFRJinAodS1XdGQ
B + W 77mm
B + W Filter
Then onto the B+W, which has a color that was very close to the Schneider.www.schneideroptics.com/filters/bw.htm
Cameras 4 and 5 had Tiffen Water White IR 1.2 ND’s which looked the cleanest of all of them. This filter was specifically designed for the HD world. When you ND so much to get the exposure that you love it increases the IR levels that your sensor is taking in. This filter counteracts that. For detailed information, please contact Jill Conrad at NYC Tiffen at 1-631-609-3215 or email jconrad@tiffen.com or Robert Oralndo in LA at rorlando@tiffen.com, they both will be able to direct you to a dealer to get you all set-up. Because of the strong demand, Tiffen has started putting together a Indie kit that includes a pouch that goes on your belt and holds 4 WW IR ND filters 3,6,9,1.2. These will be available soon. Tiffen has also up their ND levels to 5, 6, and 7 stops. These are now available in WW IR ND and WW Straight ND 1.5, 1.8, and a 2.1. This is essential for getting that amazing shallow depth of field out of your Canon 5D, 7D, and 1D cameras.
Full Spectrum IRND 100325
When we compared all the cameras in the color correction bay, the Tiffen Water White IR ND quickly moved to the top. The Water White filtration is expensive, but you get what you pay for. What a difference! So, my recipe for filming is to use the Tiffen Water Whites across the board.
What types of ND filtration do you use? What gives you the best results? What problems have you dealt with?
Tags: Filtration, lense choice, Lenses
Shane 
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Shane, magnanimous artists like you are rare; don’t know if you’re getting recognition for it but I think that your passing on of knowledge will leave as big of a stamp and legacy as your own work. Few can make time to reply to blogs and messages when being so caught up in their craft. So much appreciated, mate!
Will definitely check that kit out and also give Tiffen a call. All the best, and happy shooting.
Few artists are as magnanimous as you, Shane–the knowledge you’re sharing, while helping create a smaller footprint, might just leave a bigger legacy than your films. I hope everyone appreciates the time you’re taking from a busy professional schedule to help us out with invaluable suggestions as these.
Will definitely check out the kit and call up Tiffen. All the best!
Paul, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart. That comment made my year. I sling it out there, with working as much as I can to educate and inspire people with all that I have learned as well as finding a balance with my two kids and beautiful wife. It has been an incredible year so far and I thank you and everyone that has supported me and embraced this technology. You now have a voice and I encourage you all to dream and create.
Paul, again you are so welcome. This is a personal blog, not an advertisement page. Everything that my Elite Team and I have learned in the field goes up on the page. I answer every blog personally. At Hurlbut Visuals we set ourselves apart from most of the 5D noise, by making a difference, going the distance, to educate and inspire.
Sorry for the duplicate post. Definitely meant with unfeigned respect. Shane, in the exhausting MFA program I finished, we had many talented professionals come in who were so absorbed to the extent that their personal lives were a mess. That balance between art, family, and mentoring others to develop their talents is something I wasn’t taught or had access to, but have been in search of. So thanks for showing it can happen both on and off the screen. Keep on.
Hi, I am currently doing some research for an article that I am typing for my own website. I’ve found this post extremely useful and I would like to enquire if I may link to your post as it will be of great interest to my readers? Thanks. Melissa Suffield
Paul, it is always great to hear from you and thank you.
For anyone interested, thought I’d drop another line to say that I put an order on a set of these filters, the 77mm IR ND’s. Sandie Stern from Tiffen–their specialist on filters out East–was a dream to work with and nailed down exactly what I needed. In case you think those are it, note that the Tiffen T1 filters aren’t the same ones Shane tested; they also have the hot mirror and Canon DSLRs already have that built in–so you don’t want to go that route. That would work well for like say your Sony XDCAM EX camcorders, and of course those have built in NDs.
She recommended two distributors: I ordered through Stan Wallace at the Filter Gallery in NY, a great place for all things filters if you want that specialization and nothing else. Abel Cine can also help place an order, and of course they’re great for all your production needs.
Can’t wait to try them out and dump the Fader ND.
Paul, I am glad you were able to track them down.
Shane,
Great post, as usual. Thanks for all the generous help.
I’m resisting the hype machines of giant matte boxes and trying to stay light. You are reviewing screw-in round filters, which I’m assuming you’re also using. I’m trying to decide between a Cokin P or Z series filter holder and hood that fits on my different lenses with adaptor rings. FYI, the P series is for 3×3 inch filters which fit up to 86 mm sized lenses. The Tiffen Z series are 4×4 or 4×5 glass, what motion picture cameras use. I’ve found the Walter White tiffen ND filters 4×5 (Z sized), but none for 3×3 (P-sized) filters.
Specific questions:
1. do round, screw-on filters deliver better results than square filters?
2. the 3×3 filters and gear are cheaper and lighter than the 4×4 filters. Are there 3×3 filters that are as good as these Tiffens? Or do I need to go up to 4×4?
I know that staying light in the rig is a goal you advocate. Thanks again for all the help and knowledge.
Hello Shane,
Looking at the Zeiss CP2s, their lens diameters are just above 100mm, while the 4×5″ filters are 100mm on the shortest side. Will the 4×5″ filters fit the Zeiss CP2s nicely?
I’ve also noticed that the 4×5″ filters are more than a hundred dollars more expensive that the 4×5.65″ filters. Might you know why the larger filters are cheaper instead of being more expensive? The Redrock Micro mattboxes take the 4 x 5.65″ filters, so is there a reason why anyone shouldn’t buy the 4×5.65″ filters? I’d assume that if the 4×5″ filters can be used on the Zeiss CP2s, the 4×5.65″ filters would work as well.
Thanks very much for all your help.
Shane,
Is this the water white T1 IR ND. You are tlaking about. Sorry Im still new and been following your blog and help me a lot with this 5D.
Shane,
Is this the Filter you are talking about. I have a Mattebox and but also want the Circular filters. i been trying find one but they dont exist for some reason only for 4×4 and other size’s
Thanks…
Steve, No that is not the one, you will need to call Tiffen NYC directly, here is there info. Call Jill Conrad directly at Tiffen 1-631-609-3215 or email at jconrad@tiffen.com. It is White Water IR ND 3,6,9,1.2.
Cedric Yu, I would go with the ones that fit the Red Rock matte box or the Birns and Sawyer clamp-on, which is the one that I use. The 4 x 5.65 is a Panavision size and works very well. They went with that bizarre size because they could use all of there Panavision glass as wide as a 14.5 with this size, where Arri has to go to a 6 x^ mattebox to cover that range. So it became the industry standard and that is why I think it is cheaper. Go for it. You are very welcome.
Hello Shane,
thanks very much for your help! The inside-track newsletter is an awesome publication, I really appreciate all that you’re doing for everyone.
I have another filter related question for you;
if you could only have one or two Grad NDs, what would you go for?
I intend to do some landscape-heavy (thinking of attempting some natural and urban night timelapses), as well as general purpose, documentary style shoots, and was thinking of going with the:
Grad ND 1.2, both soft and hard graduation.
I heard the hard version is better for locked of, landscape distant shots, while the soft version is better for medium shots with movement. What are your thoughts and experience with the Grad NDs? Is 1.2 a good contrast for cloudy Vancouver? Or would you go with something more conservative like a 6 or 9 if you could only have one?
By the way, just to confirm, is this one of the IR ND Water Whites?
Or should I contact Jill for a kit as you suggested to Steve?
Thank you very much!
Cedric Yu, I am not a big grad guy. I used to be before the invention of the power window in post color correction. If I had to pick two it would the ND 9 Grad soft and hard. Then you can use your straight ND to bring the camera down where you want it.
That is the filter at B & H but give Jill a call and tell her that I sent you and see what kind of deal she can give you. Thanks, and you are very welcome. I am so glad you like the newsletter. I try to give you as much information through what I experience on a daily basis using this camera.
Cool, was just thinking that for something like the 5D that hasn’t got a lot of post allowance, it might be better to do as much as possible in production. I’ll check out the power window and its equivalents. Thanks again for the suggestions referral Shane! (:
Cedric Yu, you are very welcome
Cedric Yu, I wanted to give you a heads up that Jill from Tiffen just emailed me and the filters on the B&H site are incorrect. They are not IR ND they are straight ND filtration. I advise everyone to contact Tiffen tech support and Jill will be contacted through them to help get these filters in your kits. All the best.
hi shane,
do you have tested FORMATT HD ND FILTER?
THEY ARE NOT ANTI-IR,but without color shift.
i’m searching a good nd filter in circular size(82mm).
in this size i have only found FORMATT HD and TIFFEN DIGITAL HT filters.
what do you suggest me?
if i need two filters wich grade you can suggest me?
Thanks
ivan, I would suggest Tiffen WWIR ND, .6 and 1.2, these are you two best filters. You can find these filters by calling Jill Conrad at Tiffen directly at: 1-631-609-3215 or by email at jconrad@tiffen.com. They will get them to you.
Shane,
Thank you for all the information. I have been hunting these down since following you blogs and having late night hours surfing your website for valuable information of what you can do with the 5D. I learned a lot from your website and I appreciate all your help especially from a Big Name DP/Cinematographer in the business and sharing it to the Little People
Steve, I am getting them to offer an Indie filter kit that will include 77mm 3,6,9,1.2 in WW IR ND and then another set with 77mm WW Straight ND 3,6,9,1.2. That way you can double stack filters to get your minimal depth of field. Jill Conrad at Tiffen will be handling your requests. You can contact her at 1-631-609-3215 or email at jconrad@tiffen.com.
Awesome! thanks shane.
Im still waiting for the email back from tiffen. Just wondering how much do they cost.
Steve, I think the 77mm were 160 a piece. Ask Jill to give you a good deal. She is awesome. You contacted Jill directly, correct?
Steve, you are all an inspiration to me, to go out and there and push the envelope, to crack this technology and to be a responsible filmmaker. I will always continue to share, the days when keeping things close to the chest are over. Onward and upward. Inspire and educate is what the Hurlblog is all about.
hi shane,
i have contacted jill and i answered me.
for now they don’t sell 82mm filter size,maybe next month.
he said me that you only use 77mm filter size using step-up and step-down ring.
do you have used the 77mm filter also to a 82mm lens?
Shane & everybody else-
Thanks for your guidance on this issue of ND for HDSLRs. I ran in to a severe problem earlier this week and was caught without any ND other than a couple of grads. So I quickly called Stan @ The Filter Gallery and the man is moving mountians to make sure that not only he can get his hands on the filters I need, but that he’ll get them to me in time for my shoot in NYC on Monday. These Tiffen WW IR’s are sure hard to come by, but Stan has been first rate. So thanks for the research on the filters, and then thank you for pointing out that Stan & Able Cine Tech are pretty much the only place to get these bad boys right now. (They’re actually so hard to come by that I’m purchasing the demo 1.2 that was used at NAB by Tiffen because it’s the last one that they have on hand in 77mm- crazy!)
Jason F, Hi, I want to help you quickly. Call Jill Conrad at Tiffen directly in NYC, her direct line is:631-609-3215 or email at jconrad@tiffen.com. I hope this helps. It is crazy. We are putting a Indie kit together that gives you a set of 77mm WW IR ND’s 3,6,9,1.2 and then a set of 77mm WW Straight ND’s 3,6,9,1.2 so that you can double stack filtration and not be double stacking IR.
ivan, That is great that Jill got back to you. Yes, I use the step-down ring from 82mm to 77mm, it does not vignette and works very well. That way you’re using one size which is 77mm for everything. It makes it easy and fast for changing filtration. We are putting a Indie kit together with Tiffen that gives you a set of 77mm WW IR ND’s 3,6,9,1.2 and then a set of 77mm WW Straight ND’s 3,6,9,1.2 so that you can double stack filtration and not be double stacking IR.
Hi Shane,
I don’t wish to beat this issue into the ground, but is there a projected launch date for this Indie Kit of 77mm Tiffen WW IR ND filters?
That said, I shot some test footage with the 5D over the (very sunny) weekend and was pretty well hosed, without NDFs. I was able to compensate with a 1/100 shutter (Private Ryan lives!) and >10 F.Stop: the results (rivaling any off-the-shelf camcorder), as you can already guess, were somewhere South of “artsy.” Some top-flight NDs are a must — and fast!
Finally, been shooting with the 5D for a few short months: this site has been an immeasurable wealth of knowledge and inspiration.
Keep up the great work, sir.
Cheers!
Steve, they will be up hopefully by the end of May. You can go to filmtools.com and buy them right now. Get them quick, no more “Saving Private Ryan.” LOL!! You are so welcome. I will, and thank you for your support.
Hello again Shane,
Thank you for the referral.
Cheers!
P.S. Not a huge Will Ferrell fan, I recently watched Semi-Pro (you can surely guess why): the cinematography was stunning and totally not what I would have expected from a sports comedy. That one (Steadicam?) shot, where they come out of the tunnel for the big game … simply gorgeous.
Great job, man!
Steve, thank you so much. I am glad you liked the movie. I loved what the director and I came up with for the look. That steadicam guy, I flew all the way from Italy. His name is Roberto Deangelis. We have done 6 movies together. I love him and his passion.
Shane,
I should have mentioned that, in the end, I enjoyed the overall film very much — one of Will’s funnier works, I’ll admit.
That said, where the cinematography is concerned, I was enraptured from the opening credits: the angles, the camera moves, the color palette … .
My gal (also a big fan, by the way) and I kept looking at each other and saying, “are you seeing this?” She had me rewind the aforementioned Steadicam shot a few times, too. True story.
On that note, I’ve seen a few of the films Roberto’s worked on — just didn’t know who he was, till you pointed him out. Now that I know his name, I’ll be paying closer attention. Thanks.
And thank you for taking the time to answer all these questions and offering so much insight into your craft — the world needs more Shane Hurlbuts.
All the best, sir.
Cheers!
Steve, wow!! You choked me up. Thank you for all those kind words. Whatever you need I will try my best to help.
Shane,
You’re so very welcome.
I’ve never been one to withhold praise: when I truly appreciate something, whatever that may be, I say it loudly (just brought up that way, I guess) — often, at the risk of being written off as a gushing fanboy (or suck-up) by cynics.
… and so what?
The fact is your work (both on-screen and through this site) has knocked me on my ass, inspired me, and I ain’t afraid to let anyone know — least of all, the talent behind it all.
That said, you can expect a lot more flowery language from me in the future.
I trust you can handle it.
As for whatever I need, it’s all about information, at this point in my development as a filmmaker. This site has done a fantastic job of filling knowledge gaps — and I can’t thank you enough.
Have a great day.
Cheers!
Steve. There is more on the way and the new newsletter has answers to most frequently asked questions during NAB.
Thank you again for those amazingly supportive words.
Shane,
Received the latest newsletter two days ago. Thanx.
As for those “amazingly supportive words,” as always, you’re very welcome — just sayin’ it like it is.
Have a great day.
Cheers!
Shane,
Why aren’t the WW IR NDs stackable?
If I’m adding a 77mm Tiffen WW IR ND .3 to a 1.2 aren’t I getting 1.5 worth of ND and IR protection?
Thanks,
A
shane -
thanks so much for sharing – i’ve met mouse a few times through my friend wes brown & love what you are doing at bandito.
i just got back from shooting surfing and dust traveling lifestyle in baja with my 7d. i’ve been stacking my Tiffen 77mm ND8s & 9s to stay at 1/40th f2.8 in the hot desert sun.
i’m been super happy with the results – keeping my neutral setting very flat – i don’t see a big color shift but i have been warming up my white balance for that “desert feel”
i have had some issues with the “over heating warning” – not sure if others are experiencing this in challenging conditions. but for the most part – i am extremely happy with this system.
i can’t wait to check out your recommended tiffen water white IRs – sounds like another gem of info from you.
your generosity to other filmmakers embarking down this new HDSLR world of production is unprecedented. i truly do thank you for sharing in a world that often hordes. you rock. best. jb
Shane,
How are you? It been a long time. Glad you are doing all this work. The info here is really helpful
Was wondering if your tested any Polas? I did not see mention of them
Ara, It is fine to do. I was not reacting well to it. I felt it was a little heavy handed at times. But it all works beautifully, just like it is meant to do.
baffa, you are very welcome. Sounds like you are doing the right thing putting all that ND in there. You will love the results with the WW IR ND. The overheating issue is a pain in the rear. It is the dual digi processor. It overheats so much more frequently than the 5D. Watch your blacks when the camera overheats. They tend to deliver this weird banding issue, where you see vertical and horizontal lines. Thank you so much for your kind words and support.
Paul Reuter, Hi Paul, yes we did, the Schneider True-pola and the Tiffen Pola looked great. I tend to not use a pola that much for sky’s with this camera, because the blues seems to be saturated enough to my liking.
Yeah, I’ve been going with out a Pola, Something I feel the True-pola make the image look muddy. Most of the time I am happy wit out. Can’t wait to try the WW IR ND.
Paul Reuter, I don’t think you will be disappointed. Muddy is right.
hi,
i have received an email for jill conrad from tiffen about 82mm size WW IRND filters.
this is what he wrote:
“..We have been busy meeting the demand for the 77mm. Shane uses a step ring when shooting lenses requiring an 82mm. This is another option for you. I honestly don’t expect to have 82mm in stock for a few weeks. We have not have a real demand for it”
for me is strange that peopleS prefers a 77mm over 82mm size .
if i want to be sure to use the filters in all photographics lenses’ range i think that 82mm size is the best solution.
the maximum lens size of a photographic lenses is 82mm.
don’t you think so?
if yes why you don’t suggest to all peoples and Tiffen the 82mm size?
thanks
ivan
Hello again, Shane,
Sincere apologies for still being stuck on this ND issue (you’re living in the past, man!!), but …
You said:
” … you can double stack filtration and not be double stacking IR.”
Does that mean that if I require 4 stops of reduction, for example (and assuming, of course, that I don’t have a 1.2), that I should stack a .9 IR ND and a .3 standard ND, as opposed to stacking two IR NDs?
What will happen if you double-stack the IR?
… I’m scared. :-S
Thanks again for your time.
As always, keep up the great work.
Cheers!
P.S. I have lots to say (and questions to ask) about “The making of the Janitor Sequence” … still organizing my thoughts. Please, stay tuned.