Reaper
Making HD look like film has a cocktail and one of the essential ingredients to this flavorful recipe is Neutral Density. You have to keep your exposure on a 5D around a 5.6 to get that beautiful shallow depth of field. The 7D should be around a 2.8, and the 1D around a 4.0. This gives the focus puller a chance and still keep a beautiful fall off of focus.
The Canon cameras allow what has never been achieved before with most of the HD platform cameras. They never had a vista-vision sensor in them. It was always a 2/3 chip sensor or a 35mm sensor size with more depth of field than anyone would want or know what to do with.
I recently did a slew of tests for the Bandito Brothers Production Company and we discovered how cheap ND (Neutral Density) limited our color correction options. Green is one of my favorite colors but not what bad green filtration does to a beautiful image with depth and color.
Hoya ND
We had a test where I was shooting five 5D’s side by side with different ND filtration from a variety of manufacturers. The color difference was astounding. Muddy, green and flat was the feeling I was getting from an $11.00 HOYA filter. www.hoyafilter.com/products/hoya/oef-05.html
Schneider ND
When I moved to the next camera it had a Schneider that seemed somewhat clean, but not perfect. www.schneideroptics.com/industrial/filters/Neutral_Density.htm?gclid=CM_NhqTH258CFRJinAodS1XdGQ
B + W 77mm
B + W Filter
Then onto the B+W, which has a color that was very close to the Schneider.www.schneideroptics.com/filters/bw.htm
Cameras 4 and 5 had Tiffen Water White IR 1.2 ND’s which looked the cleanest of all of them. This filter was specifically designed for the HD world. When you ND so much to get the exposure that you love it increases the IR levels that your sensor is taking in. This filter counteracts that. For detailed information, please contact Jill Conrad at NYC Tiffen at 1-631-609-3215 or email jconrad@tiffen.com or Robert Oralndo in LA at rorlando@tiffen.com, they both will be able to direct you to a dealer to get you all set-up. Because of the strong demand, Tiffen has started putting together a Indie kit that includes a pouch that goes on your belt and holds 4 WW IR ND filters 3,6,9,1.2. These will be available soon. Tiffen has also up their ND levels to 5, 6, and 7 stops. These are now available in WW IR ND and WW Straight ND 1.5, 1.8, and a 2.1. This is essential for getting that amazing shallow depth of field out of your Canon 5D, 7D, and 1D cameras.
Full Spectrum IRND 100325
When we compared all the cameras in the color correction bay, the Tiffen Water White IR ND quickly moved to the top. The Water White filtration is expensive, but you get what you pay for. What a difference! So, my recipe for filming is to use the Tiffen Water Whites across the board.
What types of ND filtration do you use? What gives you the best results? What problems have you dealt with?
Tags: Filtration, lense choice, Lenses
Shane 
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Steve K, You are o.k. to stack, but I just received word that Tiffen has made the INDIE filter kits and you can buy them in different varieties. They have expanded the WW IR ND line to 1.5, 1.8, 2.1 so they are doing 5 stops to 7 stops. Very exciting for a person like me that loves taking it way down. It was mainly not liking 2 pieces of glass in front of the lens.
Shane,
Yes, it’s still me.
Here’s an apropos question (concerning the Janitor Sequence):
What degree of ND filtration might you have used for those shots, if any?
Also, does IR filtration apply to both interior and exterior photography?
Thanks again.
Cheers!
Shane,
As to the first question (double-stacking IR filtration), thank you.
Not that I have much real experience with this, but I can understand the logic in NOT wanting any unnecessary glass in front of the lens.
As to the INDIE filter kits, am I reading you that they are now available?
Having still not seen them in Tiffen’s catalog, I was just about to place an order for individual filters with B&H.
Thanks.
All the best.
HI Shane,
Enjoy and use your blog as a reference. Thanks for all this effort you are putting in this. I’m about to load up on NDs and started wondering if this scenario would be valid: Getting one clear IR filter (no ND) and then putting standard ND in front of that, as needed. Seems like the IR pollution happens when you don’t need or want ND (interiors). I see redish noise in the shadows when shooting in interiors. Is this IR pollution?
Another quick question I had was what your ratio has been in terms of using a mattebox versus screw-on ND on your 5D shoots. Having looked through all the stills and BTS footage here, I rarely see a mattebox on the cameras.
Thanks again.
-Ken
Steve K, hold off, they are coming out. This is what Jill Conrad sent me:
Indie Standard IR Neutral Density Kit (W77INDSTDKT)
IR Neutral Density 0.3, 0.6, 0.9 and 1.2
Indie Upgrade IR Neutral Density Kit (W77INDUGKT)
IR Neutral Density 1.5, 1.8 or 2.1
Indie Pro IR Neutral Density Kit (W77INDPROKT)
IR Neutral Density 0.3, 0.6, 0.9, 1.2, 1.5, 1.8 and 2.1
Indie Neutral Density Kit (W77INDNDKT)
Neutral Density 0.3, 0.6, 0.9 and 1.2
Steve K, yes where ever you use ND, you will have IR pollution. I did not want to use ND on the Janitor sequence because I wanted to shoot with the lowest ISO possible.
Shane,
Awesome! Thank you so much for the skinny on the Indie ND (say that 10 times, fast) kits and for clarifying that IR pollution issue.
No word of a lie, I learn something new every time I visit the blog. Cheers!
On an unrelated note, have you experienced any stuck frames with the 5D? I shot some footage this evening (perhaps, 60 shots), and wound up with a stuck frame (each one lasting four frames) on 3-4 of those. I’d read that this was a common problem but had yet to see it for myself.
Other than that, I’m still very pleased with what the 5D can do: it’s one mean machine, and I thank you, once again, for teaching me how to use it.
Have a great one.
Cheers!
Ok, “very pleased” was an abysmal choice of words — I’m delirious, ecstatic.
Cheers!
Steve K, Never heard of a stuck frame, very bizarre. You are very welcome.
Shane,
I might have a budget for a RED EPIC and Lenses. I would like to buy the Carl Zeiss Compact Primes (18mm, 21mm, 25mm, 28mm, 35mm, 50mm, 85mm) with the RED EPIC Set-up. Would this be a good combination I would like to have your opinion on this set-up?
I have a 5D already and investing on another 5D for 2nd and 3rd camera….
Shane,
Thanks again for the wealth of information and experience you share, much obliged. I have a question that may be more worthy of a separate post; apologies if I get longwinded:
It seems one of the main advantages of DSLR shooting is its low-profile nature–both in its diminutive size (can be rigged anywhere) and its not being an attention monger (you can gather doc. footage on the sly, or shoot permit-free, not that you or I would condone such behavior…). Acknowledging this strength, are screw-in filters a great way to go, assuming you can adapt your lens kit to all take the same size, over a mattebox? Do lens hoods provide similar stray light shade, when necessary, as french flags?
Of course a mattebox often helps to protect the lens and camera–Cinevate’s, for example, even provides an overhead handle and a rails block for building a cage. They also lend an air of professionalism, and are adaptable to any lens, once on the rails…but what about when you want to go low profile, handheld: you still absolutely need the NDs to get your shot, so wouldn’t a screw-in set, if you had to choose, be the best choice?
I ask because I own a mattebox, but feel conflicted about trying to use it regularly with my dslr for how it grabs attention, and for the difficulty in changing out filters on the move . Right now I’m working with Fader ND for handheld dslr work, knowing that for color critical shots I should likely be using my water white glass (Schneider 4×4s). But today I read this post that even the Schneider’s contaminate on the 5D…should I fully invest in screw-ins? Do they have front threads for adding polarizers, or pro mist or black frost? Should I scrap my mattebox for DSLR use (maybe sell it for money for screw-in filters, or even baseball cards?), or try to adapt it as an option into my kit? Help, o wise sage of feature film experience…
(my gut says go for the Tiffen Indie Pro kit and don’t look back, assuming I can screw on a polarizer or slap on that mattebox for pola if absolutely necessary.)
By the way, I didn’t know until recently that you shot “The Greatest Game Ever Played”–I love that story, one of the greatest moments in American sport. And now I will certainly check out the film.
All Best, Gracias, JB
Apologies, just noticed the “older comments” replies–apparently you use B&S Clamp-On Mattebox and/or screw-in 77mm filters with 82mm step down rings when necessary. ‘Nuff said, but feel free to add more thoughts if and when you have the time. Thanks again, Joe
Joe B. you are very welcome and thank you for your kind words and continued support. Screw-ins are my go to. I do not use a mattebox unless I am in a backlight scenario. I don’t like any mattebox that goes on the rails. It only slows you down. Looks good on a website and a trade show floor but is sucks in the field. Schneider do not preform well, you have to go with Tiffen WWIR ND filtration. Keep the mattebox for those backlight scenarios but keep it lean man. Thanks for the props for Greatest Game. That was and extraordinary experience and I felt I knocked it out visually. I would love to see what you think.
Hi Shane,
Thank you so much for your generosity with your knowledge and inspiring spirit. I’d be interested to know how you typically handle white balance variations during hectic productions on these cameras, and especially when you’re using high levels of ND.
On occasion I use a TON of ND (8+ stops). Even great glass can have a slight color cast at those levels. I haven’t tried the new WW IRNDs yet (certainly planning to), but I know that Tiffen previously recommended white balancing out the yellow-green cast of its 2.1 IRND when using cameras like the Genesis and F23.
Do you shoot a grey card and use the auto white balance feature, or can you just set the Kelvin temperature and be fine? Do you approach white balance differently if you’ve got a lot of filtration?
Thanks in advance!
Will, You are welcome! Thank-you for your kind words. I love the slight yellow green that the ND filters add. The reason is that it being HD loves pink, magenta, and red. I hate pink and I hate magenta, so the WWIRND’s take that out. I never white balance. I use the color temp on the camera.
Shane,
Thanks for this info. Did you run a similar test with Polarizers? I’m looking for something to compliment my new Zeiss ZE 50mm 1.4.
Bill Walsh, You are welcome, yes the WW Ultra Polarizer from Tiffen was very clean, it did not have all that green that you commonly see.
Hi Shane,
I am looking to invest in some wwirnds but can only really afford 3, which strengths would you recommend? Also can you stack them? One other question do you have UV filters on your lenses for protection and if so what brand would you recommend? I bought a fader variable ND what a piece a junk the sharpness loss is a joke! Thanks for all your help you give us through your blog and newsletters, you are the man!
Sam Phibbs, I would go for a 6,9,1.2, stacking is not advised because it makes your image softer with the two layers of glass. I do not use the UV filters, they flare the lens to easy. I only use those when I am doing a crash housing or an explosion. If so, I would use the Tiffen Ultra Clears. Those ND faders are shit. You are very welcome. Thank you for those kind words.